MMLL Development Diary

flash · **Reply #240 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:21:10 am

Quote from: Sokurah on September 12, 2009, 12:17:43 am

anyway, don't listen to me.

Pardon, What?

Quote

His t-shit is awesome

Though, I wouldn't drink it! (I prefer Lemon T)

flash · **Reply #241 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:22:12 am

Quote from: spacefractal on September 12, 2009, 12:20:51 am

Miner actully using Classics as it root, but both videos is nice and good sound and very well played, but it might need a lots of work in XM which allready use all 6 channels when chords is used (midi versionen used about 9 notes on sammetime, so removed uneeded onces).

Personly I want this one simple, but I think should use another sound than the organ currectly used (example on some outdoor levels)?

As I say mate, you can use more channels... Even 8 could be a help?

spacefractal · **Reply #242 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:29:06 am

Its was only when some chords (due over many octaves) was played elsewise the midi/xm only used about 4 of them. I also heard C64 versions of it as well which really sound nicely only with 3 channels (one was a tunnel racing game I remember).

I have also some limited filespace when all tunes is finised (themes and movie snippts as a shared xm). I could do convert some samples to 8 bit without any problems to save memory, but wont do that if not needed, but better do that when the game is under finalizing and I begin to polish final bits of the tunes (if needed).

flash · **Reply #243 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:32:01 am

The C64 did have some fantastic music...

Lobo · **Reply #244 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:36:30 am

Quote from: Flash on September 12, 2009, 12:32:01 am

The C64 did have some fantastic music...

Amen!

spacefractal · **Reply #245 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:57:24 am

I have a idea to a level which mightbeen could been a Terminator level, but not sure. How wide and height (in tiles) can it been? I think I simple do colors on a C64 basic screen and send that to Lobo..

PS. I forget to say I really like the animated title screen at the bottom.

spacefractal · **Reply #246 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:13:11 pm

I just began on a version of Alley Cat in a bit spooky version (cavern).......

sverx · **Reply #247 on:** September 12, 2009, 05:06:48 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on September 11, 2009, 10:40:09 pm

the problem is I want reverb which is not possible on XM's, due a missing feature in XM7Play, which could simulate that very well (XM7Play wont take any volume points).

Yeah, XM format has no reverb, that's a feature of IT format AFAIK. But I don't get the problem about the volume points. libXM7 eXtended Module support is complete, so it supports both volume&panning envelopes. So I guess I don't get the problem... $:-\$ ... or did you find a bug in it? If it's so, please I need some details...

Lobo · **Reply #248 on:** September 12, 2009, 05:25:35 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on September 12, 2009, 07:57:24 am

I have a idea to a level which mightbeen could been a Terminator level, but not sure. How wide and height (in tiles) can it been? I think I simple do colors on a C64 basic screen and send that to Lobo..

PS. I forget to say I really like the animated title screen at the bottom.

256x144 is the actual area you're working in. The size of the image is 256x152 simply because the other 8 pixels are used at the bottom to store the animation for crumbling blocks, conveyor belt and the items you pick up (keys, apples, etc) but don't worry about those just leave that 8 pixel area at the bottom empty.
So if making a level, make sure that all the blocks fit within 256x144.
See that picture I've posted before, resize it down to 256x152 and use it as a template. You'll see exactly how all the blocks are working.

spacefractal · **Reply #249 on:** September 12, 2009, 05:50:50 pm

I haven never heard any volume envelopes in the No$Gba emulator, which could even been a unemulated feature? Hence I have not used any of them in these modules I create, but use Cxx commands instead (much more simple, but works ok). The only tune with a problem could been piano.xm (link to you soon via PM), which would been sound more nicely with that, due it sound a bit flat... But again I could edit the tune to use more Cxx commands.....

You could hear it with toccata, which used it a lots, but diddent take any one of them. It could just been a missing emulator feature why I dosent want to use that, but works on real DS?

spacefractal · **Reply #250 on:** September 13, 2009, 09:35:32 am

I thinking about the cheat mode (not being write here how to activate that), so you still can die, but with unlimited air and/or lives, so you can test the levels better? I also want a speed timer (a Time Attack mode).

Some tunes (like Ally Cat) might been replaced before final.

flash · **Reply #251 on:** September 13, 2009, 10:07:45 am

I only chucked the cheat mode in quickly, but unlimited lives would be better. I will also change the code to access it at some point, so it is a bit harder to guess.
I will add score and proper level complete hopefully this evening..
Then perhaps do something with the death bussiness, so something happens when you die.
Also, need to add some sound effects for a few things...

spacefractal · **Reply #252 on:** September 13, 2009, 10:35:06 am

The Konami kode? Of course before the officiel release, it should been harder to activate that. But no worry about it now. Personly only Level Skipping and Unlimited Lives is required as a cheatmode... And unlimited AirTime using another code.

sverx · **Reply #253 on:** September 13, 2009, 10:42:12 am

Quote from: spacefractal on September 12, 2009, 05:50:50 pm

I haven never heard any volume envelopes in the No$Gba emulator, which could even been a unemulated feature? [...]

No, I don't think it's an emulator issue. First of all because there's no envelope support on hardware, second because I also was testing libXM7 mainly on no$gba.
Which XM7Play version are you using for your tests? Latest is r2009-005 ...

flash · **Reply #254 on:** September 13, 2009, 10:50:51 am

I think SF is just using the MMLL beta's for audio testing within no$

spacefractal · **Reply #255 on:** September 13, 2009, 11:19:46 am

I normally not use that feature, due I dident hear any of them, so in the beta's the piano.xm volume envelopes is disabled..... No other tunes with MMLL theme on it use that.

spacefractal · **Reply #256 on:** September 13, 2009, 01:42:46 pm

I still have no access to the real hardware, but I guess I need one before this year is over. Not this month, but mightbeen next one? Hoveover the game works fine, but nothing compared to the real hardware I know.......

sverx · **Reply #257 on:** September 13, 2009, 01:53:55 pm

Ops... I see now. Well, if you've got the devKitPro you can use libXM7 example source code, replacing the bundled tune with your XM and recompiling it... this way you'd be able to hear the way it sound even on no$gba.

Btw I'll check better everything tomorrow.

Bye!

spacefractal · **Reply #258 on:** September 13, 2009, 02:01:22 pm

That can help a lot, so Flash dosent need to send so many demos just to checkout tunes sound (even I like demoes/betas of that game

).... I'm download the kit now.

I'm are not sure how to add D:\Programmer\devkitPro\devkitARM to the path to the XM7Play example?

sverx · **Reply #259 on:** September 13, 2009, 05:34:21 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on September 13, 2009, 02:01:22 pm

I'm are not sure how to add D:\Programmer\devkitPro\devkitARM to the path to the XM7Play example?

After you installed devKitPro, check if everything's ok compiling one of the libnds examples bundled with it... then, if everything's working correctly, download libXM7 (the library, latest version is 1.00) and place the two archive (.a) file in your libnds/lib folder and the include (.h) file in the libnds/include folder.

After that you've got to download the libXM7 example package and unzip it to a folder of your choice (a simple choice can be to use the same libnds/examples folder...) and compile that just as you did before for the libnds example.

I hope it works that way

Bye!

Lobo · **Reply #260 on:** September 14, 2009, 04:09:18 am

Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your levels...or else!!

Anyone got any levels to fit some those poor movie levels in waiting?

sverx · **Reply #261 on:** September 14, 2009, 09:10:14 am

Ok, there's surely a bug in the XM loading routines.

While I'm working on finding and correcting it, you can use MilkyTracker to open and save again the XM, this way the envelope works. (... now I've got to check what's different in Skale's way of saving the XM...)

Bye!

edit: The problem is that Skale is not saving a 100% compliant XM file... quite a common problem, btw, many trackers do not fully comply to the original format, there are even some specialized tools in 'squeezing' bytes out of tunes, and my loader does support such squeezed formats. But my loader wasn't expecting THIS

I'll release a correction of my routines with the next release, which won't be so soon btw, so in the while it's better to re-save with MilkyTracker or to squeeze it with the aforementioned tool.

Bye again

sverx · **Reply #262 on:** September 14, 2009, 01:38:11 pm

I just remembered two things I forgot to tell before.

1st: there's a small bug in the GB level: the monster's eyes have higher priority that what it should, so willy, slimer and some platforms fall behind them...

2nd: I barely have ever heard two sound effects playing at the same time so I guess there's no problem even if an XM takes up to 14 channels for himself. But as a pessimistic option I would choose 10 channels

This way the background music could be more elaborate and it can be a good idea especially with some tunes

Bye!

flash · **Reply #263 on:** September 14, 2009, 02:12:27 pm

I fixed the right eye in the gb level.. Well spotted.. I noticed it last night when messing around.

The music can use 10 channels if needed. jump and fall sfx share the same fixed channel, but there will be a few other sfx added in due course. Key collect, switches, etc.

spacefractal · **Reply #264 on:** September 14, 2009, 03:06:22 pm

10-12 channels would also eat very more memory (due I not use many samples as well), due extra pattern use some space. cavern.xm also for much time actually only did use 5 channels this time. I property cannot hole the filesize around 175kb each, some more and few less. Hence I like to limit 6 channels which still sound very nice. I really like to limit by self as well. 6 channels is nice for music and the game does not need all 16 channels to been used if not required.

For movie levels I might use more channels, so I can separate chords by a elpiano. For normal levels chords played instruments is exported as a single instrument. The original MMLL tune only use 3 minor chords (Cm, Fm and Gm),so that way is easy to do that. Movie levels might use other type of chords as well. That why I want to use shared XM on these levels, so I can create some good snippets.

I also final prepare the tunes in Milky Tracker, because I was think the same it might not save correctly, howover only piano.xm is really need that feature.

Did you got the cavern.xm by email (mostly only used 5 channels and only rarely used 6 for some fills)?

I guess there is need a another general tune, so I checking out the original miner8.xm.... (if I not due more speciel mixes of original MM song)?

_______

the DTG do use 8 channels for music and 4 channels for weather mod played as a seperate xm. I cant wait hear that mixed in. I do still need more work on the weather mod (I now that HeadKaze)

flash · **Reply #265 on:** September 14, 2009, 03:36:29 pm

Yes, I did get Cavern.xm and it is in the latest build which i will hopefully have ready tonight.

It sounds really good and i have put it on 'at the centre of the earth' for now..

spacefractal · **Reply #266 on:** September 15, 2009, 06:44:49 am

no news since warhawk music? Howabout annonces of both games as inprogress?

sverx · **Reply #267 on:** September 15, 2009, 07:43:39 am

Oh, I skipped that part...

Quote from: spacefractal on September 12, 2009, 12:29:06 am

I have also some limited filespace when all tunes is finised (themes and movie snippts as a shared xm). I could do convert some samples to 8 bit without any problems to save memory, but wont do that if not needed, but better do that when the game is under finalizing and I begin to polish final bits of the tunes (if needed).

...well, actually the final output of the Nintendo DS is 32KHz (the mixing freq), 10 bits (the resolution), stereo of course.
This means that when mixing up 4 or more channels it's virtually the same having 8 bits or 16 bits samples. I suggest you to take one of your XMs and prepare an 8 bits samples version of it and compare the output (well, I guess that test should be done on hardware because I'm not sure that the emulators will reproduce this perfectly...)

Bye!

spacefractal · **Reply #268 on:** September 15, 2009, 06:31:09 pm

Some 8 bit samples is very noisy in traditional players.... 10bit is still better than 8bit. I mostly use 16bit 22khz samples, few times also 16khz. I might do a 8 bit versions to been send to checking using MilkyTracker sample converter. With 22khz samples I have around 180kb as max in mind. With 8bit samples it might been turned down the size. This can been done if required under finalizing.

I do can hear stereo on the xm's which I did a little stereo.

I have something to ask? Can all music and level graphics been loaded from a external rom area to memory, so a lots of internal memory can been saved and possible to extend the 4MB used (if required)?

flash · **Reply #269 on:** September 15, 2009, 07:15:57 pm

It can be, we did that with Warhawk...

But I really want to avoid that in this release.. I want to keep the file under 3.7 meg.