Mod chips, ROM cards, jailbreaking Apple products, what do others think?

[Zzaped!]

After spacefractal's post under 'Who has what?', thought this might be worth a topic. Don't have any chipped systems myself, but to me mod chips are fine, you buy the hardware you have the right to do what you want with it, and there are a lot of reasons to do it aside from playing 'Warez' on most systems.

Apple's 'no jailbreaking' policy (for one) is also equivalent to a 'no mod-chip' policy, as are Nintendo's attempts to sue ROM cards out of existence.

Part of the US DMCA is specifically designed to give makers a right to stop people exercising the traditional right to play with machinery. In Australia, it seems that a higher court explicitly upheld the right of one company to sell mod chips, think it was vs. Sony and the mod chip was for the PS2, and the decision was based on that traditional right.

On the other hand, the first time I showed my old DSTT (now stolen, but all homebrew software) to someone from a piracy-crazed place, he/she showed his/her own cart the next time we met; nothing but commercial games.

What do others here think?

[sverx]

those 'adapters' (AceKard/R4/DSTT/etc) are the only way to run homebrew software on a DS, and homebrew is legal... well, at least where I live. Maybe if they were incompatible with commercial ROMs Nintendo wouldn't be disturbed by those... but I guess they would be way less common...

[Zzaped!]

Thanx Sverx, I did download your modplayer, works well, but Moonshell still handles more formats,
thx 4 the advice though.

OK probably a stupid thread to start, would still be interested to hear opinions from others here, but suppose it is common sense really, buy what you can, enjoy freeware where you can, don't respect ridiculous (US style) indefinite extensions on trademarks and copyrights, don't respect patent-trading (or owning) companies, do respect patents of genuine developers (companies or individuals, ooh er!).

[flash]

With mod chips and the like,

I had a Wii modded (white) and bought a new one this week (black) just so I could play one game that the modded one would not. On the modded one, I had 75+ games, and I can only say that I played one of them. That is it! The only other game I wanted to play would not run on the modded Wii.

On the PSP, I have 2 and also the PSP Go!... I bought that for LBP. That is all. Sony did well there really.. I have used it for nothing else than a single game.

I bought the Ipad recently and have jailbroken it and added TONS of software that I will never use (because I can), but... for the games/apps I wanted... I bought even though I could download.. Some things deserve payment.

Anyway.. Modded consoles etc are like duty free cigs - you can get a lot at once cheeply, but you just go through them without appreciating them. Pay for something and you take more time to try and get your moneys worth - and in doing so, you discover how good some of the games can be.

With the iXXX platform, there are not enough apps that have lite or trial versions. You would never buy a car without a test drive.... eg!

[Zzaped!]

What does LBP mean? Not got a PSP, DS is enough for now.

Point about duty-free cigs taken, but I buy a lot more than I've ever copied, just interested in what others think, and congrats for freeing the pad! If your crew put a compilation cart in the shops, I'd buy it.

Never been a freetard at all.

[spacefractal]

With the iXXX platform, there are not enough apps that have lite or trial versions. You would never buy a car without a test drive.... eg!

There is screenshots, reviews and videos on most games on web and on AppStore at least, and most of them is very cheap. We are doing the first commerciel game and it propenty got piracy too sooner or later, but I do still think it dont hurt the sale at all for our game. Also I do remember I diddent really like the Batman Arkham Asylum demo, but the full game is howover a pure excellent game (brought it on Steam), even I is not a Batman fan. So it depend on the game really.

Personly I dont modchop any controls and only do it when it can been done with software or cards only, that dont change the mb itself.

For consoles I really only have pircary games for Dreamcast and DS (but still own few originals). I do want to have want much more Dreamcast games sooner or latet (originals and in PAL)... But I do have large collection of roms of various (even my MAME collection is from around 104-105, but dont really need to update that soon). Even that I do brought one C64 game for WII recently, because it was fun to see that game on a big tv and its was allways one of my favorit game....

I do normally only pirate a newer game, if I cant find it other way, example cant import it to Denmark or such. Shift (iPhone) is a game I want to see, but sadly it not in shop in Denmark, because it have been taken from a another game. Here I might pirate that, since it thier own fault.

[flash]

"shift" you need it.

LBP is little big planet.

I know AppStore has videos of a lot of games that can help a purchase, but... Thesendo not help with the simple issue of controls! And without a lite version, how do you know if it is playable? A hell of a lot of iPhone games are not really playable IMHO.

Pirate dreamcast games are fine though as a lot of games are nearly impossible to find, and it is a dead console (almost). I have about 150 originals, but I also have nearlymevery game as an iso.

[spacefractal]

I have to say Giana Sisters have same controls as Shift, descripted as a "Touch" method, but for that game I do prefer Classic much more. Jumping using the Shift method fell much more imprecision in that game, but Shift is completely another genre/style thought than Giana Sisters is and hence why it should works there.

Pirating games for current machines should been of course been no-go, but on PC sad using the annoyring DRM scream like that Ubisoft use, so with Ubisoft games on PC is a no-go.... More DRM = more pirating. DRM might hurt if they are so restrictive, but if it does it good (like the Batman game), there is no problems. The major problem is, when most people do jailbreak, modchip or such, its mostly do for pirating games, and not checking out the elsewise nice homebrew market for many consoles. This is why their respectively company won't like it.

I did only brought AceCard for my DS for testing the games we have created (but yes I do have both originals and pirate games).

on Iphone, even Apple might have some aggresive TOS (I do heard United3D and GLbasic have not been effected and they still Accept games even after that change = nice), Indie games is really great on iPhone and is a lots of fun games and they are mostly really cheap.

[Zzaped!]

What is 'shift'?

Sure agree about need to put out 'Lite versions' for people to see if they enjoy something or not. Could put it in nastier terms, but the iPod/iPhone complex certainly does have a big 'King's new clothes' element.

Not quite the same, but recently saw something close to Flash's joke about wearing an iPhone on his forehead in real life (some bloke who wore his iPod, not iPhone, unfortunately, as an armband, whoa, what a statement!).

Pirate Dreamcast games  , I don't have one, but I have a stack of the real ones that would go to somewhere between two and three metres if placed on top of each other, since the maker abandoned the thing it doesn' t really matter either way IMHO.

Also after reading Spacefractal's comment more carefully, I agree, but there has to be some space for copying, mixed tapes and all, who hasn't enjoyed a recommended collection or mixed tape? What wrecks it is the claim by Napster and others that all of the people on the P2P network are 'friends', but even there, the only time I used Napster (just before the end) I had just about every original record of the files I downloaded and just used it as a radio, once only, at work.

Might be nice if you could post the Ubisoft DRM screen, don't think I've played any of their stuff since Rayman on the DC (though I like things they make).

Dodgiest on my card is Tetris the Grand Master, DS version, official downloads have been taken down ( but recommended). It is not an exact copy of the arcade game and I don't think any of the makers of the many Tetris versions tried much at all to compensate the original creators of the game.

[spacefractal]

he-he, oops, its should have been in the secret game forum. Shift is a b&w platform game for iPhone which have been some inspiration in the early day, before it became something very different. The secret game is still not announced, so I of course can't talk about that game.

I still play PC games, but don't do that often anymore and consoles have taken the place of it. Antipiracy measures have been taken overhand for some company (like Ubisoft for thier PC games), even other company shown how it can been done (Batman from Eidos example and the way Blizzard and Valve examples do).

[Lobo]

Just to say, I don't think "Shift" has been inspiration for this *secret game* that we're working on, if that's what SF is saying. Actually, I just bought that game recently and played maybe twice albeit it's a working, solid experience quite similar to something called 'Negative Space' (DS homebrew) and a PC game that inspired 'NS' and 'Shift', forgot the name, btw as it precedes both.

So, I wouldn't say, just to clarify, that 'Shift' really has anything to do with what we're doing on this little iphone game whatsoever, in terms of controls, story nor visuals.
The only reason why there are no official news about our game is simple, we need more things to implement and show before we announce anything so hopefully it's gonna be a nice surprise for everyone (plus we have learned something from the past with MMLL fiasco with alpha being released on the sites, etc).

[spacefractal]

I diddint say which area of the secret game, the inspiration from shift taken from. Could been controls type alone, style or whatever. So i could been anything really.

This is a iPhone game and if we came to realease any code, would it only works on jailbroken phones, and there should only been around 10% of Them.

[Lobo]

I know, I know matey, it's just for the fact (and record) that we didn't take nothing (anything) form 'SHIFT' whatsoever to inspire our little game.

[Zzaped!]

Thx spacefractal for description of 'shift'.

Secret forums and all, what do you (Lobo) think re. the topic (way off it now)?

If it's all about the (oh my god) secret forums, why not shut the public parts down? I appreciated the DS games (still haven't finished Warhawk), just trying at times to liven up the forum as thanks.

[flash]

We will do a post about the iPod/Phone game at some point.

This is a good and valid topic and I have aired my views here.

I also do not really see a problem with copying something that you would never buy. Some games are not worth purchasing though can still be fun to pass an hour or so. In relation to PC/Wii/etc... £30 + is WAY too much for an hours amusement. Christ - Disneyland is cheaper than that.

[Lobo]

Secret forums and all, what do you (Lobo) think re. the topic (way off it now)?

Regarding the topic? 'Opening' device means that I can see things usually not meant for it by those who made the hardware but most of the time possible and not even illegal to experience.
One of the first things I wanted from DS was not Mario or Zelda, I wanted a drawing app and a decent text app and possibly a web browser. It made all the sense to me that having stylus and possibility of typing/drawing something is perfect with such apps and not having them in some form included or thought of from Nintendo perspective was as ridiculous as Seal of Approval on Pony games.

That's why having a cart meant getting all of these apps (Ok, Opera did come out later for what's worth) made by people who understand what others want from device outside the range of corporate thinkers.
So, that goes for every other device out there that I might have or get in the future.

If it's all about the (oh my god) secret forums, why not shut the public parts down? I appreciated the DS games (still haven't finished Warhawk), just trying at times to liven up the forum as thanks.

There are no *secret forums*, everything here is public and people can post and talk about anything pretty much (within reason). There's only one tiny space left for developers (us) where game related material (ideas/code/artwork/music..) is being shuffled around and no real point (at least for now) to open that to public. Might as well hand over all the code and art/music to anyone out there lurking, to compile and make a game for themselves. Once it's ready, everyone will know, it's as simple as that.

[flash]

Once it's ready, everyone will know, it's as simple as that.

Is it done yet

nd people can post and talk about anything pretty much (within reason).

Except they are not allowed to say 'Cock'.

Lobo, Emulation has always been another wonderful jaunt into the realms of unlocked devices. I remember when I got my XBox (original version) and installed the Os (cannot remember what it was called) and spent weeks adding all the emulators... The C64 one was sweet and slick.. I never got round to playing any commercial games at all. I was quite happy with my Emulation collection.

[Lobo]

Lobo, Emulation has always been another wonderful jaunt into the realms of unlocked devices.

Agreed, even though I always get the mixed feeling about these on handhelds. C64 emu (for example) was great (for me) on PSP, weird on GP2x (had to overclock the emu manually every time??), meh on DS unfortunately and so-so on iPhone (some stuff works great, other stuff just no joy). Goes for other emus really, even though some are more consistent (NES) over different devices. For that reason, I seek for things that device seems to be made for or at least capable of by design first (thus mentioning the whole stylus=drawing app and such).

[flash]

I do agree on the DS front.

Talking of Art packages on the DS, I WISH you had an iPad as I found this and it is magical...


http://www.solidsmack.com/design-news/autodesk-sketchbook-pro-ipad-wacom-photoshop-killer/

(I know it is off topic, but follows in a way!)

[Lobo]

Yep, I did mention in the ipad thread that I bought Sketchbook for iphone (loong time ago as I did the sketches in it for the *game* ).
Now, that one is called 'Mobile' but there is that one for ipad called 'Pro' and I'll definitely get it as soon as I get the ipad (plus it seems quite cheap compared to what I paid for the iphone version back in a day).
It is probably the best out of bunch as well.

[flash]

It is certainly a lot of fun to fiddle with... I just wish I had your talent to make more use of it.

I just thought I would mention it as it is quite advanced and I was not sure if you knew the iPad version existed.

[Lobo]

Looks quite powerful on ipad as well, I like the interface big time (seems a tad bit different from iphone version)! So, yeah, this one is on the shopping list, for sure.

[Zzaped!]

'Colors' on the DS is pretty good, probably the inspiration for that one, too. Does it play back the process of making the drawing? Anyone wanting to check what people are doing with Colors (also on the iPhon) can check the big gallery on the site.

Probably the most famous use of the US DMCA to block people from legitimate fun was Sony vs. Aibo homebrew, sorry article is advert-ridden: http://articles.latimes.com/2001/nov/01/business/fi-64041, for anyone who doesn't remember or didn't notice, the homebrewer cracked encryption of the software and started releasing things to make the robodog dance in different ways and so on.

Pulling the plug on the Aibo (followed by just about all of Sony's other prestige product lines) was pretty much Stringer's act one on becoming Sony pres., so the case has largely been forgotten. Interesting thing was that the principle behind Sony's argument was pretty much the same as Nintendo's against DLDI (but can't be upheld anywhere much outside the USA, they have enviable free speech rights in general but seem to have a huge mistake in the DMCA, card makers all being outside the USA, Nintendo can't use the DMCA to take them down).

With Lobo on the DS C-64 emulator, some things run OK (a lot of demos just end up a mess) but Dingoo sounds like a better solution.

[Lobo]

Colors was pretty cool on DS but Sketchbook is a 'lite' version of PC app that Autodesk had way before iphones were made. Actually, now that I look at it, it's not really that 'lite' neither as it seems to have just about all the features from PC version.
Also, I remember Colors when it came out on DS as it had the playback option so you could show how you painted something. I was among first 2 or 3 people to upload 3-4 images with playback back then but bugger if I can find it.

As for C64, yeah, I'm still waiting for a handheld that will do it just right.
Maybe Pandora will, I mean..it should technically speaking.

[sverx]

Thanx Sverx, I did download your modplayer, works well, but Moonshell still handles more formats, thx 4 the advice though.

? ? ? Weren't we talking about another topic?

btw thanks, but my XM/MOD player was never meant to be a replacement for Moonshell, really. Just a simple tool to preview modules.

[sverx]

I was among first 2 or 3 people to upload 3-4 images with playback back then but bugger if I can find it.

LOL!!!
Here, pal

http://colors.collectingsmiles.com/details/27-quickie_by_posted_pre1.06.php
http://colors.collectingsmiles.com/details/28-rottn_by_posted_pre1.06.php
http://colors.collectingsmiles.com/details/72-BonK!_by_posted_pre1.06.php

[Lobo]

Hah, thanx dude, that did bring a laugh (or two) but there's one still missing, maybe moved away cause it had..umm..boobs.

Also, the last link got broken-

http://colors.collectingsmiles.com/details/72-BonK!_by_posted_pre1.06.php

You need to paste all of that in order to see it.

[flash]

It brought me 3 laughs, see, much more than I expected! (And you)

"PIL" was erased in the 'watch this drawn' part and then I just cried!!!  Sorry, British and a child of the 70's - I can't help myself.

Public Image Limited
RULES!

(Really needs to be in a sew-on badge form)

[Lobo]

Excclnt! I thought noone would notice PIL at the end (you can see I drew smiley quickly before erasing it as that dude IS meant to be Johhny RTTTNNNN...).

Btw, PIL...great band, I think I still have a few records (LP) around including 'Flowers of Romance'. Ah, cue the violins.

[flash]

Just a FEW? Badness!

p.s A great picture of JR also - WONDERFUL