Apple MacBook as Dev System

flash · **on:** July 26, 2009, 09:30:24 pm

Well, I treated myself to an Apple MacBook Pro on Friday.

The first thing (and main reason for the purchase) was to check out the xCode dev system for the iPhone (in particular)

The dev environment is pretty sweet, though it is a big step from "Programmers Notepad"

But, I also wanted to see how it worked dual booting with Win 7. This was pretty easy, though it did need an install of OSX "Snow Leopard" (10.6) and a dvd containing it. This install also contained apples latest Vista/Win7 drivers making this really easy to do.
What is also rather good is that the drivers also include a file system addition that allows the Mac drive to be accessed from win7 and vice versa.
Also, a major improvement in Leopard is the new trackpad driver. The Macbook Pro uses a multi-touch trackpad that has one button (all of it clicks). This was a problem in Vista as you had to press with 2 fingers to gain a right-click. With the new drivers, you can make a press on the bottom right of the pad simulate a right click. Not perfect, but it works in most cases.
Though I must say, the multi-touch pad is a DREAM in OSX.. Place 2 firngers on it and rotate them and the same happens to the pictures. Place 2 fingers on and move them apart and you can zoom (even zooming the desktop).. I could go on forever (there are even gestures for 4 fingers)

Anyway, the pictures are not great (I should have done screen grabs, but wanted to show the screen size in relation to the unit - and also that massive trackpad)

spacefractal · **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2009, 11:19:56 am

:-D.

Make sure if you go for IPhone market, make sure it also works for IPod Touch as well. If I get to one, I do NOT get a IPhone, but get a IPod Touch instead some where next year or later this year.

I allready have a nice Nokia 5800 and I like that phone. I have also updated the firmware and also updated Flash Lite on it. The newest Flash Lite version is MUCH much faster than that one that was default installed on the phone. It now run very slick and very smooth.

flash · **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2009, 12:14:30 pm

Just about anything that runs on the iPhone will work on the iPod Touch. There are really only 2 differences, processor speed and mobile network. The processor speed is not really an issue.

The 5800 is a nice phone. The good thing about the C based development on the iPhone is the possibility of porting to other hardware. Though there is a long way to go before we get going on the iPhone, learning the SDK is bad enough (for me anyway!!)

headkaze · **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:45:51 pm

I believe the iPhone and iPod Touch have the same CPU but because it has all of the phone features removed it actually runs faster than iPhone. It's recommended to test on the real iPhone to make sure it runs okay.

Nice pics of the MacBook Flash. I'm still thinking of getting one, although will have to sell my Satellite A70 first and I'm quite attached to it. Not sure if I can bring myself to do it!

flash · **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2009, 01:51:10 pm

I thought the iPod ran slighly slower to increase battery life? But, the main point is that software is interchangeable.

Well, you would fall in love with the macbook even more. I was never a fan of macs, but after playing for a weekend, my poor £1,800 sony laptop has been delegated... There are just so many nice things about it.
Win7 also runs very quickly and supports the full hardware - best of both worlds.

Lobo · **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2009, 06:19:51 pm

Beautiful pics, glad to see you messing with iphone, ds is so getting on my tits that any other platform looks refreshing for a change.
Also, I've actually read on a few occasions that Ipod Touch is faster because Apple in some way thought of it as a gaming/multimedia device a 'bit more' than IPhone. It's a bit hard to tell as I've played games on both and unless you have a game reeeaally hungry in terms of power it's prolly impossible to tell what runs faster as I don't think there's an actual killer game that is still using hardware to the max. It would be neat to have some benchmark app to measure actually.

Sokurah · **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2009, 11:36:29 pm

Glad to see you're doing something serious about the Mac platform - it must be serious since you've dropped the idea of using a PC running OSX.
Why is that btw? - did you see any problems by developing from a PC (running OSX) platform?

I expect to get an iPhone 3Gs a little later this year, and the primary reason for getting it is because I'd like to try and develop for it, but unfortunately I also know in advance that I will probably never get 'round to doing anything about it.

But I'd REALLY like to develop for it. If only I didn't have a ton of other projects. :-/

spacefractal · **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2009, 05:45:22 am

personly I have no plans for a IPhone, due I have a Nokia 5800 instead. howover sooner or later I might get a Ipod Touch instead which is more suitable for me.

flash · **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2009, 01:08:12 pm

I did think about the 5800, but then the n97 came out. Not that it is very good to be honest. The n97 is rather sluggish.

Sokky, I tried all ways of getting a fully functioning OSX install running on a pc. But.. It is not the same and it is quite hard to get some things running. VMWare: Cannot get networking to function correctly, nor a high enough resolution screen. Native: The eeePC gave me the best results, but, I also failed with ethernet or wifi.
In the end, MacBooks have come down a bit in price and this really seamed the best option.
I am now having a go at setting-up VMWare Fusion 2 on the Mac to enable the running of PC apps from OSX itself.. Will report back

flash · **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2009, 03:18:12 pm

Some pics of VMWare Fusion 2.

It does work much better than VMWare Workstation on the PC.

This also has the ability to run PC apps on the OSX desktop - A nice touch.

The Win7 installation works pretty fast in full screen mode with vmtools installed (and right click works perfectly - why could Apple not manage that?).

Sokurah · **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2010, 10:41:40 am

I have a big dilemma right now.

I'll be buying a Mac soon. It's been my plan all along to buy a Mac Mini - because it's the cheapest one, but my boss is giving me such a good deal I'll only end up paying less than 50% of whatever I decide I want.

That means I can get the small Mac Mini for about £210 instead of £510.

However, it's made me think. I can exploit this and get a 13" MacBook Pro for about £500 instead of £1174. The only thing is I don't really need another laptop and I'd be quite satisfied with a stationary PC, and since the guts of them are pratically identical it feels a bit like throwing money out the window.

Hmm, perhaps I should get the large Mac Mini and an iPad instead?

In any event I'll wait a month or two. The MacBooks are about to be updated with new Intel Core i7 processor, and maybe they'll update the Mac Mini too? So, there's no rush...but luckily I don't have to decide right here and now.

spacefractal · **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2010, 10:49:20 am

lol I should get a iMac throught you, since I have same plan as you. But I dont think I can do that here. I only need the cheapest one, since that would been a good platform elsewise.

headkaze · **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2010, 10:55:38 am

Yeah I'm spewing I missed out on the i7 updates..

flash · **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2010, 08:25:58 am

Well, you but a spanky swanky Mac,

Using your nice wireless Keyboard and Mouse, set up a Bootcamp partition,

Install a copy of Win7 to run alongside OSX,

Boot into Win7

and,

Keyboard and mouse don't work!

You have to plug wired ones in!?! C'mon Apple you bunch of fucking twats! ! ! Win7 does have a bluetooth driver, is it so hard to add support to your windows bootcamp driver installation?

Sokurah · **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2010, 12:50:54 pm

Yay, today the new MacBook Pro models finally arrived.

Now the big dilemma is: do I "settle" for a i5 processor or do I splash out £177 extra for the 15" with an i7 processor?

flash · **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2010, 01:00:45 pm

Well,

For use as a dev machine, it may shave a second or 2 off the compile times? The simulator is undemanding and runs pretty much as well on the i5 macbook as the i7 imac, so?

For games playing - well, there really isn't any LOL.

spacefractal · **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2010, 01:47:28 pm

just been sad at Apple actually harsh some developers after a bad change in their SDK. They should approve after the quality of the app and not the tool used... But pretty sure most tools can been changed to suit the TOS anyway. GlBasic is howover no problems I think :-D (due its just precompile to C anyway).

Sokurah · **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2010, 01:58:41 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on April 13, 2010, 01:47:28 pm

But pretty sure most tools can been changed to suit the TOS anyway. GlBasic is howover no problems I think.

Well, the TOS does say that "software has to be written originally in C", so that makes it a bit uncertain, but I don't know - lets' see what happens.

On that front it's also very interresting to hear that the makers of BlitzMax are (finally) working on iDevice support and they've said that despite Apple's changed TOS they're not planning to make changes to their original plan.

...but, at least, now I can finally buy the hardware I want. That's a start.
I've decided on the middle 15" MBP version with the i5 processor btw.

flash · **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2010, 02:04:41 pm

And I am sure them 15 inches will make you very happy!

Sokurah · **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2010, 11:39:10 am

Quote from: Flash on April 13, 2010, 02:04:41 pm

And I am sure them 15 inches will make you very happy!

Well...they have made me happy thus far.

Guys, I can't decide what kind of screen I want - glossy or matte.
What do you have on your own laptops and how do you like it?...would you change if you could?

flash · **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2010, 12:29:11 pm

I have the glossy screen, which is fine for me as I do not have too many bright lights reflecting off it, and it is really easy to keep clean.

headkaze · **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2010, 03:24:06 pm

I have matte but I don't think there is a huge difference. I researched this quite a bit and they say matte more closely represents colour (for graphics designers) and glossy is more richer in colour so better for playing DVDs and such. I don't think it really matters much to be honest.

Zzaped! · **Reply #22 on:** April 15, 2010, 03:35:42 pm

Apple computers are pretty machines but now that they have the same hardware as Wintel PCs (but less at times) the attraction pales. Like Spacefractal, will never buy an iPhone, considering touch.

Are iPhony/podTouch dev. platforms completely restricted to Macs?

Sokurah · **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2010, 09:12:11 pm

Quote from: Zzaped! on April 15, 2010, 03:35:42 pm

Apple computers are pretty machines but now that they have the same hardware as Wintel PCs (but less at times) the attraction pales. Like Spacefractal, will never buy an iPhone, considering touch.

Are iPhony/podTouch dev. platforms completely restricted to Macs?

Yes, just like XBOX development is restricted to the windows platform you'll need a Mac to dev. for iPhony/podTouch.
Sure, you can use a Hackintosh for it...but then it'll kinda still be a Mac platform.

I've decided to go with the glossy standard screen btw. The plan is to order it friday.

And I would not have bought an iPhone if I was to pay for it myself - maybe an iPod Touch, but since the phone was paid for by work I don't mind.

The same goes for the MacBook Pro. I would never have bought one if I had to pay for it myself - then I would have bought a Mac Mini instead, but when I only have to pay about £780 instead of £1945 then it's not so bad.

flash · **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2010, 10:02:37 pm

Sounds bloody good to me

Zzaped! · **Reply #25 on:** April 16, 2010, 02:48:25 pm

Sent this to flash, don't know if he he conveyed it to others.
The bloke who made cells DS, glitch DS and one or two of the other of the best DS audio programs is requesting help for an i-phone version of DSglitch (good program btw).
http://www.glitchds.com/glitchds-seeking-iphone-developer-for-port-of-glitchds/

It's not a game but he seems to be a very sincere person and offers profit sharing, if people on this site can respond, better than any alternative. I am never going to buy an iphone but your site has rekindled my interest in programming (want to restart with Lua scripts for the same bloke's Cells DS). Might appeal to some here. Warning: Iphony copies already exist, but afaik his DS ver. was the original.

Also recently amused by a TV show with Tron lightcycles as promo for iphony, clearly based on the DS version.

Sokurah · **Reply #26 on:** April 16, 2010, 03:31:51 pm

Quote from: Sokurah on April 15, 2010, 09:12:11 pm

I've decided to go with the glossy standard screen btw. The plan is to order it friday.

...and I did. I should get it tuesday.

Edit: Spelling corrected.

flash · **Reply #27 on:** April 16, 2010, 03:37:11 pm

Bugger, I missed the spelling mistake and now I feel interior to you!

spacefractal · **Reply #28 on:** April 16, 2010, 09:03:08 pm

we are currently working on a iPhone game allready and is heavy working on that, but that game is still not announced.

for the glitch DS, it cant port it directly to iPhone without violate Apples TOS and need to been redesigned a bit. The main problem is interpreters is forbidden (the user defineable of LUA need to been removed, but I do think static used LUA is fine as long they cant been changed by the user, even that is technical violate of Apples TOS, but I don't think they would denied for that).

Zzaped! · **Reply #29 on:** April 17, 2010, 01:33:25 pm

AFAIK, Glitch has no Lua, pretty sure coding is exclusively C++.

Anyway just a thought, Flash said he was too busy, thought others might be interested, and Bret (writer of GlitchDS) made some very good DS homebrew. I am too out of practice coding C++ and won't ever buy an iPhone. Someone has probably taken him up on it already, or given up before starting because of the copies of the idea (apparently) already up. BTW, fave toy lately is the DS-10.