MMLL Development Diary

flash · **Reply #720 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:24:19 pm

Quote from: Lobo on October 29, 2009, 08:02:38 pm

Ah, also, I wanted to try the mobile one but realized I've lost my emulator (on PC). Not so sure if that one would even support this as it was quite oldie. Anyone can point to some coolio emu for bloody cellphones?

As for RR, they did a great job, you know the people over there are most likely our biggest supporters (and c**ts ) and mixing it with other MM games, I think, was quite a cool move actually. It's sorta historical coincidence if you will.
Ten years from now, when you're 98, cough, you'll be looking back at it and say - " Nurse...nurse...", or "Ahh...it was like yesterday, 6 MM games released at the same time, it was like this........"

94... God! get it right!!

In a way it was nice to get in amongst the flux of the MM releases, but it would have been nice to have had a news item all to ourselves. What I was saying was that witin mins of the WHDS news post, sites all had it, this time, lots are still just the beta releae and have not updated there news page. Perhaps it was my fault for not doing a Vid this time. That does always help presentation. I couldn't though

The main thing for me is that I feel MMLL is the freshest MM game in years. This has also been commented on a forum somewhere. Ours is not a run of the mill conversion. If you want that, Emulation of the original is the way to go!

Lobo · **Reply #721 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:49:26 pm

Of course it's the freshest, it came out 2 days ago you silly!

Well, MMLL did get its own spot, plus the announcements from a few months ago or so was there for quite a long time. That means that really anyone interested in this game HAS already got it, or discovered it. The rest will be downloading the infamous DEMO as I see that in search to be the most displayed result, quite sadly.

flash · **Reply #722 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:55:24 pm

Quote from: Lobo on October 29, 2009, 08:49:26 pm

Of course it's the freshest, it came out 2 days ago you silly!

Well, MMLL did get its own spot, plus the announcements from a few months ago or so was there for quite a long time. That means that really anyone interested in this game HAS already got it, or discovered it. The rest will be downloading the infamous DEMO as I see that in search to be the most displayed result, quite sadly.

Well.. there is a lesson to be learnt there for me sadly... Bit to late now.

er, what was it? Don't what? Oh, I forget..

CUNTS

Lobo · **Reply #723 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:04:11 pm

Quote from: Flash on October 29, 2009, 08:55:24 pm

er, what was it? Don't what? Oh, I forget..

c**tS

Bitches...forgot too.

spacefractal · **Reply #724 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:18:15 pm

he did like the game throught and is a really fair review I think. For me when you first try the first level, that level can been a bit hard, but when you first got it, it became really easy next time.

The only mistake is you got release the early alpha here at forum which is a no go (some find it actuelly anyway). That why I diddent want to do the same with the music.

There is no reason to do a full announcements at Retro Remakes again, since the game did got a full announcements some month ago.

For the graphics, I did have same "problem" with my H.E.R.O. Game. some simply wanted the old graphics even the new one did look fine. Finally I dedicated to include the both graphics sets. For doing remakes I normally prefer new grahpics. I do like MMLL do have some old graphics as well in some levels.

flash · **Reply #725 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:31:40 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on October 29, 2009, 09:18:15 pm

he did like the game throught and is a really fair review I think. For me when you first try the first level, that level can been a bit hard, but when you first got it, it became really easy next time.

The only mistake is you got release the early alpha here at forum which is a no go (some find it actuelly anyway). That why I diddent want to do the same with the music.

There is no reason to do a full announcements at Retro Remakes again, since the game did got a full announcements some month ago.

For the graphics, I did have same "problem" with my H.E.R.O. Game. some simply wanted the old graphics even the new one did look fine. Finally I dedicated to include the both graphics sets. For doing remakes I normally prefer new grahpics. I do like MMLL do have some old graphics as well in some levels.

The idea was to try and do something different and thanks to that tosser Lobo, more work went in to adding the WW levels and then bonus levels.
Then someone suggested timers on the bonus levels - so more work...

In the end, between all of us, I honestly believe that we ended up with one of the best MM remakes so far. It has a lot to it and some of the best graphics and also the original graphics for some levels. So, you get a bit of everything.

plus, you get a story.. A first for a MM game.

I have done some updates to the game. ALL bugs mentioned have been fixed and there are some minor additions. IE. on the title screen, when you select a level, it will now show you if that level still has a hidden bonus level in it. So, now you can make sure you find them all..

I may use the engine at some point to do an 'anthology' using the original graphics.. But.. really not sure.. Do I want to spend weeks doing something for free - again? LOL

I do need a little rest!

Lobo · **Reply #726 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:38:23 pm

Most people will appreciate it, some wont, can't care less about 'some'. That's the nature of things. The saddest cases are where people just have this need to dissect the game cause something bothers them personally. In that case they usually miss out the fun completely!

The way I look at other people's stuff is in 'like it/not like it', for whatever reason. Everything in the gray area is those 'ohh, music could be more like AC/DC, graphics could be like..more..Yellow and...' that kinda shit which is nothing but 'Make me a game that I want!' kinda thing, not really improve over existing game.

Of course, even black/white approach can yield a 'This bug needs a fix' and that is fine and desirable but structural changes to game Mechanics, Design and Overall Feeling ('Oh..dunno, just don't have THAT feeling, Marry') is an utter and unacceptable shit.

So..with that said, regardless how it goes in the future and whether it gets advertised or 4000000000 downloads or whether Flash finally makes a video with him prancing in a pink bunny attire, the fact stays that this is one of the best games ever made that YOUR MONEY CAN'T BUY on DS, 'homebrew or moneybrew'.

Capiche?

flash · **Reply #727 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:47:02 pm

You have made me feel all warm and squidgy! But that could be because I though it was Wind, it wasn't

Lobo · **Reply #728 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:52:42 pm

Yes, darling, now about that Bunny suit...

spacefractal · **Reply #729 on:** October 29, 2009, 10:01:26 pm

review is.... a review

.

What is th next game? any plans?

Do you plans to do a DS game again, might been a smaller one?

Mightbeen a game for both DS and IPhone, where DS version could been free and the IPhone can cost money with exclusive features or such?

flash · **Reply #730 on:** October 29, 2009, 10:12:06 pm

Really not sure at the moment..

Hmmmm..

Lobo · **Reply #731 on:** October 29, 2009, 10:57:21 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on October 29, 2009, 10:01:26 pm

review is.... a review .

That was no review, just a personal opinion as reviews are usually longer than half a paragraph

.

The next game is Rambo, for money, I'm negotiating with Sly as we speak.

Sokurah · **Reply #732 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:05:51 pm

Quote from: Flash on October 29, 2009, 08:24:19 pm

The main thing for me is that I feel MMLL is the freshest MM game in years.

Not only that, but what I also really like is that it just feels RIGHT and I desperately hope I can match the feel of the original when I do HITMW because my two earlier platformers didn't feel that much like the orginal. For what it's worth though - they were both made within a short timespan for competitions. On the other hand they can't be that bad because one won the 11th place in the compo and they are both the two of my games that has generated the most downloads. But there's no pressure on Horace (except for the constant pressure from Flash

) so I can take my time to get it right.

Quote from: Lobo on October 29, 2009, 08:49:26 pm

Of course it's the freshest, it came out 2 days ago you silly!

Hmm, didn't it come out on the same day as the one for mobile phones?

flash · **Reply #733 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:15:58 pm

So, Horace?

To coin a phrase,

"Is it done yet?"

Lobo · **Reply #734 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:31:10 pm

Quote from: Sokurah on October 29, 2009, 11:05:51 pm

Hmm, didn't it come out on the same day as the one for mobile phones?

It came out on 27th, at least here in Estados Unidos, I think mobile one as well or on 28th early on with a morning dew.

EDIT: I meant, the mobile one either came on 27th as well or early on 28th.

EDIT: I meant, oh crap!

Is it done yet? Anything? Done? Yet?

headkaze · **Reply #735 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:42:23 am

Quote from: Flash on October 29, 2009, 09:31:40 pm

I may use the engine at some point to do an 'anthology' using the original graphics.. But.. really not sure.. Do I want to spend weeks doing something for free - again? LOL

I do need a little rest!

Just incase people are mistaken into thinking there are lots of generous people out there on the Net who donate money for projects like this; since Warhawk's release we've had a single donation of $5 US. I've also made a total of $11 AUD in advertising since opening the website. In other words Flash and I have spent much more than that on hosting than we'll ever see in donations. So call it an act of love but there is only so long one can write free software (and I've been doing it for several years now). I just hope the whole team comes along with us when we move to iPhone and hopefully make a bit of money from the hard work. Unfortunatly there is another rather large investment required to build iPhone apps, including a MacBook, iPhone and iStore registration!

Lobo · **Reply #736 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:12:21 am

Hah, I'm surprised you even made that fiver! Must be some very generous soul out there.
I'm in for iphone as I'm also tired of all the free crapola and sweating for the sake of it. Wanna play it? Pay for it dammit, then you buy yourself a right to bitch about it as well or be as loud as fish!

The anonymous appreciation with a frickin fiver through donations or words model just doesn't work anymore. Actually it never worked. Time to start appreciating time and effort with $$<this. It's about eliminating that shitty aspect of waiting for some 'award' or something for the kind of work being done. Reality is...noone frickin knows but you and noone can respect it unless you start charging for it.

So, fuckado the DS and homebrew and all the free stuff, I'll rather spend my free time bird watching.

sverx · **Reply #737 on:** October 30, 2009, 07:37:12 am

Quote from: Flash on October 29, 2009, 08:24:19 pm

The main thing for me is that I feel MMLL is the freshest MM game in years.

I'd add that it's also one of the best DS homebrew games I've ever seen, speaking about the overall quality. Of course from my point of view, I'm into this only since two years and a couple of months but I think I've seen almost everything that this world has offered so far. And you're a very good team so whatever you're going to do -develop iPhone apps or not- I'm sure we'll see exceptional things again.

What about me... well, I'm curious about the iPhone, of course, but what I really don't want to do is to turn an hobby into an occupation, I need something I can call my passion and not my work, I'm sure you understand what I mean even if my English isn't perfect. So I'll be surely going on coding on the DS for pleasure and I'll be happy to be part of another project of yours if you'll make it (and if you need it!)

Cid2Mizard · **Reply #738 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:20:48 am

Good Works on DSi with Acekard2i, the game is very hard !

spacefractal · **Reply #739 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:15:44 am

Apple have not do very cheap to start to programmering to the IPhone, I have not a change to get a Mac and a registration soon and not even have a IPhone. I also donny think Apple like assembly as well? It would cost a bit too many money. I wish Apple was proud to let programemring do on Windows or even Linux, but not. I gonna think they have a bit too much control what theier costumers do (even I liked they removed the drm in Itunes, which is why I use that now, even it might have watermarked files instead it does not bother me).

I would do like to see a game released both DS as well IPhone. There is no reason to do a demo to IPhone, if you do the game for free to DS.

Howover we could just create a regular PC Windows/Linux game (mightbeen even in a oldscholl 320x240/320x200 resoulution with scanline support)? Could been fun.

sverx I think we should play at the opera night :-D. I not even where you really life (not sure9?

flash · **Reply #740 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:33:04 am

Yes, starting development on the iPhone is not cheap and it is a shame that Apple have not enabled the SDK to work on Windows. It would mean you would only need a dev licence and iphone/ipod. Shame. I am lucky as I bought them prior to MMLL.. Sorted.

X-Code is the dev environment for coding on Apple and is pretty sweet. The iphone SDK does allow the use of ASM (inline), and perhaps that may come in handy for intensive tasks to make our software stand out? But... I really have to knuckle down and get to grips with the demon spawn that is C. A lot relies on that, so much as I would LOVE to dev in ARM on the iPhone, I must learn C before anything and not get sidetracked by dreams of iPhone ASM

Regarding HK and Lobo's earlier posts - I agree.. It has been nice to develop Freeware and has enabled both myself and HK to learn a lot about the DS and game coding in general (I had forgotten so much). It also has had the benefit of getting a great team together, a team that I really hope will follow us to iPhone and who knows what else?
I may tinker with another MM game, but.. Not yet and not involving new music, graphics, and code. Just built upon what we already have.

But.. I need a break and a little rest for now. I think 2 (and hopefully) 3 games in 12 months is great! Time to make the basterds pay!! LOL

sverx · **Reply #741 on:** October 30, 2009, 12:51:09 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on October 30, 2009, 11:15:44 am

I not even where you really life

Italy. And I don't think I would like to code for the PC again, I gave up with that 12 years ago

I'm really loving now this console thing and, as I said, I'm not planning to make any money with it, just have fun. Beside that I'm curious about the iPhone programming... how much is that for everything you need for that? You need a Mac, an iPhone and that SDK and that's everything?

flash · **Reply #742 on:** October 30, 2009, 01:00:35 pm

Yep,

Mac, iPhone, SDK (free), and a developer licence.

and... a lot of patience! LOL

Lobo · **Reply #743 on:** October 30, 2009, 08:17:03 pm

It has turned into a job, something that started as a hobby. I'll just briefly mention that my MMLL folder has 319 image files or so, take into account that lots of these are one file with multiple frames of animations, which amounts to hundreds and you'll see that it's not a hobby anymore. Hobby was to put together something to relax after a day at work, spend a week or so on it and done. It's not like that, production of MMLL or Warhawk and some other things I've been doing lately makes my actual job relaxing in comparison!

Also, I would not advise to quit your day job over development on iPhone or any console just yet, unless of course you hit some jackpot. It's still interesting cause it's a new and alien platform, plus you have the opportunity to see actually if it can work in the new concept, someone actually buying it against the cat-mouse concept on freeware release.

As for the Apple, they did the most logical thing that any business does by pushing their platform, development, store out there. Nothing that MSoft, Nintendo and Sony haven't been doing for decade or so.
For that, my hat off is to Apple, not because they 'love' the community, nobody goes into such business with love in mind, they simply did the right from things that their competitors did wrong.

flash · **Reply #744 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:03:51 pm

I only work 62 hours a week, so... hoping to cover both that and iPhone development. I do not really want to dev on iPhone for financial reward personally (though that would be nice), I want to work on that platform because it is a new opening and may inspire. Though, dev'n on the iPhone WILL be a commercial endeavor. And after all this work that has gained nothing for anyone... (except that git HK got $5 Grrr... LOL), it will be nice to break into something else.

Lobo, I know Warhawk, TDG, and MMLL have been a lot of work (for all of us), but there is surely satisfaction? You mention the work involved, but no mention of any plus to the projects. I remember that you said you did not like MM, but you must have a soft spot for this one?

Well.. I will say what I have said before.. 'Hopefully we will stay together as a team for financial development on other platforms, starting with the iPhone, and going - who knows where?'

I also agree with you on one aspect - freeware downloaders are quite often c**ts who have no appreciation for the amount of work and effort goes into these projects. My wife threatened to leave me on several occasions and I am left with the misery that the MMLL project has come to a close and the money grabbing bitch is still here!!! LOL.

I spent 3.5 months on MMLL and worked EVERY day and night on it in one way or another (check the SVN commits - http://code.google.com/p/manicminerll/updates/list?start=200 and this does not show them all), Lobo and SF have been passing gfx and music updates like wildfire, and what comes at the end?
Well, if only a handful of people say (and they have) 'This is the best DS homebrew game', 'This should be a commercial release, I would buy it'.. etc, then I am happy and glad that this team is capable of so much.

This leads me on to another point. We have been together for 3 projects and worked well together. Perhaps we would make a great team for bigger things.. And I am not talking MMLL with 51 levels.

Who knows, but so far it has at least been fun and frustration in equal measures, but the end result always fills me with glee. I gave up coding 15 years ago and in that time looked at some of the stuff I had coded and thought 'how the f**k did I code that', well I think in 2 projects I have done my best coding, spurred by the people within the projects.

And If I died tomorrow without doing anything else in my life - I would be dead? Oh.. Cocked that one up didn't I? Oh well..

Thanks to all that have helped and sorry for this rather dull tirade.. I will shut up now LOL

Lobo · **Reply #745 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:18:58 pm

Shut Up now! My turn!

Yes, we all went to the mines and only HK gets the fiver!!

As for the satisfaction, yes it's there but on different level. We had a great time developing it, the 'Horace' moment and LaVey moment (in WHawk) for examples are among the stuff that's worth doing all this for. Plus, I've met cool people, learn about even more restrictions on bloody DS (like there was not enough of them already

) and I get to play the great game.
What I meant by all those hours that all of us have put into is the fact that to me it's starting to be a job you do for the nameless service of some kind which is automaton at best! I'm not against a shitload of job, after all what good is from the things that come easy? It's just that this whole work, effort and time should be equally returned to us, if not with general support then with a 'hard earned' buck.

Also, yes, I disliked MM originally cause back in the day it was something those weird spectrum folk use to hammer on their rubber keyboards while the rest of us did...IK? However, working on this has made me like it after time, especially after watching that Matt video which was quite....something.

My wife also threatens me every time I fire up Graphics Gale, so we're equal on that as well.

All in all, it's just a matter of time to move from one thing to another, in this case I agree with iphone being that step forward, after all some beer money can't hurt. If sverx and SF would join as well, it would be quite spiffy and splendid as well.

flash · **Reply #746 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:33:04 pm

Spiffy... LOL

So, Sadly, I am the cog in the works.. HK has a wonderful grounding in C coding that will be a major benefit for future dev on the iPhone. I may not have mentioned, but I love ASM with a passion that leaves my Wife in the dust. I have never liked C! But... I am MORE than ready to bite the bullet and hopefully put the wonderful things I have learned from ASM

to good use in the constuction of fast code on the iphone. This is going to take time. Sadly I am OLD and stuck in my roots, the brain cells find it tricky to absorb new regimes and my testicles are heading southwards. But.. I WANT to get into this C business.. So.. At least everyone except HK will get a bit of a rest for a while as I become educated LOL

Oh well, I went on a bit again didnt I...

Oh, I started MMLL on Aug 13th, so I was a bit out there (http://code.google.com/p/manicminerll/source/list?start=17)

Lobo · **Reply #747 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:38:53 pm

Quote from: Flash on October 30, 2009, 09:33:04 pm

So, Sadly, I am the cog in the works..

Hey, no problems! You can always serve the coffee?

What's driving yer nuts down south? Can't be your young age of 68?

Also, don't tell me that August 13th was Friday actually, it would make all the sense in the world.

Lobo · **Reply #748 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:41:18 pm

ALSO! Don't forget this double post has an old Tibetan saying-

"There's nothing this master coder can't do...for everything else there's HK"

yep.

flash · **Reply #749 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:48:56 pm

Good ol' HK!!

I was actually reading through a load of stuff on Gamex forum yesterday relating to a frontend theme I was working on at the time (just before Warhawk) and giggling to my self about stuff then. It was quite fun that even then I was ribbing HK (he was doing a theme also). Well, this is where we met.

It was slightly interesting though.

http://www.gameex.info/forums/index.php?showtopic=6050&st=0

and, I still have not finished it.. Though it was looking nice on the last page or two.