MMLL Development Diary

sverx · **Reply #390 on:** September 22, 2009, 08:20:00 am

Quote from: spacefractal on September 21, 2009, 10:34:56 am

saved by MilkyTracker in the end (and using the same software to convert samples to 8 bit, while I using 16 bit versions under creation)

Good

Yes, I think you can keep on using your favourite tracker until you're satisfied with your results, optimize in the end. Btw, did you read the section "Getting the most of your tune" on libXM7 page? There are some 'little tricks' to make your XMs play perfectly on the DS:

In short (for 8 bits samples):

Quote

- Length of samples without loop should be multiple of 4.
- The length of the non-repeating part of samples with loops (of any kind) and the length of the repeating part of samples with forward loops should be as stated above.
- Length of the repeating part of 8 bits samples with ping-pong loops should be even.

Anyway I would check only those samples not playing perfectly (do some samples sound detuned? crackling?) and just forget the others

Bye!

flash · **Reply #391 on:** September 22, 2009, 08:31:17 am

Quote from: spacefractal on September 21, 2009, 09:20:40 pm

7 - King Kong 1933
Note sure, mightbeen somewhere that midi file posted here? Its a old movie, so should sound like that.

The Kong tune sounds good mate.. That would be a good basis for the full xm

spacefractal · **Reply #392 on:** September 22, 2009, 11:49:33 am

I see most of them is really horror and/or someone monster movies, so I think should been more variered (I think)? 2001 example, but there is many space levels as well.

1 - Casablanca <-finished.
2 - Gremlins <-missing tune, but looking into this.
3 - Goonies <- only kid movie choiced and pretty a good one, just need the music theme fitted in.
4 - Back to the Future - missing level (I got designed a level for this one).
5 - Hellraiser <- missing tune. Its would been a SFX only tune without music.
6 - Ghostbusters <- finished.
7 - King Kong 1933 <- nice level (not tested much, but do the abe moving he hands to fast?). Tune still missing and doing using the midi as base.
8 - Terminator <- finished.
9 - Young Frankenstien <- Not sure should been used? Music would propenty do simular like Casablanca did.
10 - Rock Horror Picture Show <- Not sure should been used? Howover the movie contain much music, so one tune could been used, so which one. The TimeWarp is a nice idea to do a rocky MM theme.

to been honest 8 movie levels would been pretty fine as well.

flash · **Reply #393 on:** September 22, 2009, 12:09:31 pm

The Young Frankenstein level really has to be "puting on the Ritz"

spacefractal · **Reply #394 on:** September 22, 2009, 12:57:11 pm

To been sad, its not a easy song to convert, due the original use a lots of samples, drums etc and simply cant fit the memory used without sound to empty or bad.... and in my option its simply not really Manic Miner, even its a good song. Jazz using synth is not the best idea to doing this. Its need jazz instruments.

flash · **Reply #395 on:** September 22, 2009, 01:41:41 pm

some how, it really does have to have "puting on the ritz" in it..

Perhaps MM jingle then the notes of "puting on the ritz" (where they sing the words) at the end of the segment

spacefractal · **Reply #396 on:** September 22, 2009, 02:44:11 pm

its cant been mix major and minor in same time. May look into that later. Howover I send you mp3 preview of the horror bgs and gremlings (a slowdown version of it) to you soon, so I get these two finished first.

PS. some bass and drums added after emailed you gremlings preview, but you got the idea of the style (which now sound a bit more upbeat).

Lobo · **Reply #397 on:** September 22, 2009, 09:19:31 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on September 22, 2009, 11:49:33 am

1 - Casablanca <-finished.
2 - Gremlins <-missing tune, but looking into this.
3 - Goonies <- only kid movie choiced and pretty a good one, just need the music theme fitted in.
4 - Back to the Future - missing level (I got designed a level for this one).
5 - Hellraiser <- missing tune. Its would been a SFX only tune without music.
6 - Ghostbusters <- finished.
7 - King Kong 1933 <- nice level (not tested much, but do the abe moving he hands to fast?). Tune still missing and doing using the midi as base.
8 - Terminator <- finished.
9 - Young Frankenstien <- Not sure should been used? Music would propenty do simular like Casablanca did.
10 - Rock Horror Picture Show <- Not sure should been used? Howover the movie contain much music, so one tune could been used, so which one. The TimeWarp is a nice idea to do a rocky MM theme.

For gremlins, maybe something like this~ gremlins
Goonies - goonies
Rocky Horror ~ rocky timewarp

That Rocky sample is quite cool methinks (adjust to the left)

.

Lobo · **Reply #398 on:** September 22, 2009, 09:28:31 pm

Back to the future - power of love

Hellraiser - hrtheme

Still not so sure about the actual YF level as in where its supposed to be, thinking lab is better than the podium as we already have podium planned for Rocky?

spacefractal · **Reply #399 on:** September 22, 2009, 09:40:43 pm

I have designed level to Back to the future, but is not in game, hence I wrote level missing. The tune is finished. You can listen to that tune on one of the missing level in the demo.

Goonies have i just used the intro into a longer peice, and gremling got a slowdown theme of it. I finsish studio versions of it.

For Rock Horror Picture Show Flash asked "I-M Going Home", which I seen suit better due the last level.... Nice piece and should been easy to do. I might trying do both tunes. I do not have good guitar sounds yet.

I could do Casablanca like piano tune with a organ chords as orignally planned for YF (might use 10 channels due many jazzy chords, so I hope it use less than the egyptian tune).

King Kong to been planned.... Nice a little bit easy level and only took me few tries.

Hellraiser ... see can fit that on the bg SFX as well.

Lobo · **Reply #400 on:** September 22, 2009, 09:58:20 pm

You're done with BTTF level? Send it over then.
'I'm going home' you say? Not bad, gonna make a few people cry though <coughflashcough>.

Well, for Casablanca-this would be perfect as it is the tune from the movie - as time goes by

spacefractal · **Reply #401 on:** September 22, 2009, 10:06:15 pm

this is a variation of the tune allready in the level... mightbeen piano only tunes is normally easy to convert, but later on. Need to finish other movies first so they have a tune.

~~I have not your email? Flash have got the level. Its a another city level.~~
lol I did not seen that email on your profile, I normally not do that due spam. Send you very soon, so you have some work.

Lobo · **Reply #402 on:** September 22, 2009, 10:20:09 pm

Righty, where do you think I get all the spam from

.
Got your level so I'm gonna look into it, cheers!

EDIT: You forgot to specify the starting position, else is Ok.

spacefractal · **Reply #403 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:08:28 am

I known. he start at bottom, I was going to bad and have turned power down. Its was orinally planned to use moving hoverboard platform, but Flash wont change gameplay thing, so I changed it to use cruncing platforms instead. Hince the double wide enemy (which originally was the moving platform).

Lobo · **Reply #404 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:47:44 am

You mean bottom left? That would make sense, well it's for Flash to know anyway. He said he'll look into the level and let me know how it works so I can draw stuff for it. It's very busy and tricky one though, I hope it works as it looks interesting.
I do agree about not changing gameplay mechanics though, especially not for just one level that can be probably finished in matter of minutes. Basically, all these levels were not really meant to 'follow' literally the movies they're in, just regular levels which can be skinned with pretty much any theme without loosing consistency in what people expect from controls and gameplay aspects. For that reason, some of the LL levels had to be modified in order to fit the game, not the other way around (Eddie's forest for example) and I think it's for the better.

So, with that level in there and Rocky coming from Flash, all that's left is Young Frankenstein and the 4 LL levels, I believe. Not bad.

spacefractal · **Reply #405 on:** September 23, 2009, 10:18:52 am

yes and exit is on top right.

The middle screen might need change if too tricky or might been the middle enemy only been one instead of two and even some crunching platform can been replaced with solid blocks. Its propenty here its can been very tricky, and I guess not inside buildings. I hope it can been completed witheen airtime.

flash · **Reply #406 on:** September 23, 2009, 11:51:33 am

I have got the level in, and it is possible.

I have changed a few little things to balance it out a bit and it could look really good. I will send it to Lobo this evening.

spacefractal · **Reply #407 on:** September 23, 2009, 01:27:45 pm

nice. Balancing is important. I have not tested levels, only designed it as I think.

A new goonies is sent per email (that one got finished first in XM and not started on XM versions of other 2 songs you got mp3 versiosn yet). Hope you like that one.

spacefractal · **Reply #408 on:** September 23, 2009, 02:48:00 pm

Ideas for polishing:

- Hiscore support (even original did not have it, it need such of one) with score, level and time on each place.
- Possible to practice a level from any level you have unlocked doing gameplay (I believe there is no start level point this time).
- Mightbeen a extra life on each level complete or by score (but allways have 3 as maximum I think).
- Music Selection Screen to play tunes you allready have heard from regular gameplay (these tunes being unlocked over time).
- Credits screen and hiscore screens can been used in the screen between level slideshow.

flash · **Reply #409 on:** September 23, 2009, 02:53:50 pm

They are good ideas..

Not sure about a highscore table? Perhaps?

I like the jukebox idea.

Not sure what to do abould continues at the moment? Do we return to level 1 or can we replay the last level?

spacefractal · **Reply #410 on:** September 23, 2009, 03:46:35 pm

I don't gonna think about continues in this game.

Some Miner games does have extra lives bassed on score or such (saw a 1997 version of it, that did that).

The Practice idea is so you can practice on later levels, but ONLY on these levels you have played on and not all levels from the start and after the level end, the game should just go back to title. Just a idea not seen in a MM game.

There is score in the game, so why not use that better? You have a slideshow feature in the title screen, two of these screen can been used seamless to a credits as well hiscore.

Lobo · **Reply #411 on:** September 23, 2009, 11:21:50 pm

Hiscore might work like that, maybe show it against the bkg (the same which can be used for credits?) while the menu thing loops?
Btw, while we're at credits, I assume you'll write the text, so you need just one background for that?

flash · **Reply #412 on:** September 23, 2009, 11:43:18 pm

I will sort out credit ideas soon...

These will be on the top screen between the level demos.

spacefractal · **Reply #413 on:** September 24, 2009, 12:37:33 am

its what I meant for both credits as well hiscore. Do mightbeen not really need for connection directly. Its a a slideshow of demos of level, but can been used with other screens.

Also if you swap screen, its still swapped in the title which I guess should been not. I prefer level demo's and the titlescreen on top, but acutely gameplay its should been that screen the user want.

sverx · **Reply #414 on:** September 24, 2009, 07:47:06 am

I've been checking the latest demo with a couple of friends and we focused mainly on music, here's what came out:
- Title screen tune is somehow at a "lower level" than the other tunes. I don't know if it's done on purpose (to sound childish for instance?) but I personally think its level should be raised somehow. It's the first tune the player hear when he starts the game, do we really want him to have a bad impression? (click start and compare it with the quality of the tune of the first level...)
- Terminator tune's volume is too low. I know there's some atmosphere in it, but it's a big step from the previous level volume.
- Some samples here and there are a little bit 'noisy'. Minor problem, though, but if you've got a change to fix them we'll have a perfect result.

Of course SF you're doing a great work and I want to state it clearly. I love the tunes very much

Bye!

spacefractal · **Reply #415 on:** September 24, 2009, 08:38:40 am

All samples is 8 bit and hence some samples can been noisy, but its really a minor problem and only noticeable on some songs and when few instruments is used. I can see what I can do, and yes its a really a minor problem and not all would notice that. 16 bit samples have not that problem, but might do on DS as well when played at 10bit anyway, but if there is example 1MB memory left we can use 16 bit versions of some of the problem songs, even we need raise the buffer.

Title and Terminator tunes got raised the volume on samples and send them to Flash when more tunes is done.

sverx · **Reply #416 on:** September 24, 2009, 09:00:19 am

Quote from: spacefractal on September 24, 2009, 08:38:40 am

All samples is 8 bit and hence some samples can been noisy, but its really a minor problem and only noticeable on some songs and when few instruments is used.

I think the problem with some samples it's that maybe sample frequency is too low. And some have some little 'click', just check that the beginning and the ending of the samples is close enough to the zero...

... btw again, it's a minor problem. It's that I'm quite a perfectionist

spacefractal · **Reply #417 on:** September 24, 2009, 09:25:39 am

All samples is 16 bit 22kHz mono (except few samples in one song which used 16bit 16kHz, not remember which one it was, its might have been in the scrapped miner8.xm? Its was one of the first tunes) originally and then converted to 8 bit by Milky Tracker.

I do fix eventually click problems, most noticeable in dark.xm and egyptian.xm.

Found some bugs:
- In the Goonies level, there is a crunching Block shown as a solid platform just after you jumped up the ladder (after the 3th key).
- In Back in the Future level, there is a hidden crunching block as I wrote to you, Flash.

flash · **Reply #418 on:** September 24, 2009, 08:40:06 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on September 24, 2009, 09:25:39 am

Found some bugs:
- In the Goonies level, there is a crunching Block shown as a solid platform just after you jumped up the ladder (after the 3th key).
- In Back in the Future level, there is a hidden crunching block as I wrote to you, Flash.

Well spotted mate, I am so glad you are on the Beta team.. It is hard when you are coding as you never really find the time to check everything. Little things like that are easy to miss when your mind is on other things - thanks!

Lobo · **Reply #419 on:** September 24, 2009, 08:55:39 pm

sverx, wasn't that hunch...on your right side? Ah, nevermind, maybe you can prove me wrong by designing the YF level?