TDG Development Diary

headkaze · **Reply #270 on:** November 22, 2009, 02:06:46 pm

Okay I was going to do another coding session before releasing the demo, but I'm not getting any work done at the moment so I'm going to release the demo now. Still a few things missing, namely loading and saving and saving Angus' soul. Not really needed for testing.

I must warn you that it can be a bit tedious waiting for the murders. I have currently put them at around 15 minutes apart. This is even less than the original. I think I will change it back to closer to the original for the final and make it a bit more random. But it's quite painful waiting around when you're just testing things so I tend to trigger them even closer. Anyway it's about time I released this demo, so I can start getting feedback before final release. Oh and the binary is currently 2.83 MB (gulp). So I will probably have to implement EFS/FAT loading but I don't know what to externalise. I guess I could have the xm's loaded externally which will save about 600k or perhaps implement compression for it. It's a bit annoying though to have external loading for just a couple of files. It sucks because it runs fine on both the R4 and Acekard 2i. It's annoying to have to support these crappy cards that only have ~2MB remaining for a binary.

flash · **Reply #271 on:** November 22, 2009, 02:31:28 pm

Even the crappy cards will work when used via DSorganise. So, perhaps just a note in the release readme?

headkaze · **Reply #272 on:** November 22, 2009, 03:34:44 pm

I found a quite indepth video of the original game on YouTube, thought it would post it here. It might actually help some of the team learn how to play the game

EDIT: I just noticed the sprites are sometimes flipped horizontally.. wierd

headkaze · **Reply #273 on:** November 22, 2009, 04:02:26 pm

The cover has pretty much been done. Thanks to Lobo (and Flash for help with the back cover).

flash · **Reply #274 on:** November 22, 2009, 04:54:09 pm

I still think it should end with

"CAN YOU FINGER THE KILLER"

Lobo · **Reply #275 on:** November 22, 2009, 07:03:00 pm

'Can you kill the finger killer'?

The waiting in game is sorta weird. I use to get (in the original) the first murder to happen just after arriving to my room then leaving for another hall, can't be more than 5 minutes total? I think the original requirements were simply as long as you're not on the floor/room/next to the person to be killed...than the murder can occur earlier/later?
Maybe you can have it like that, so the game checks if you're not on the same floor and at least a few minutes have passed (5 or so) and triggers the murder?

headkaze · **Reply #276 on:** November 22, 2009, 07:20:15 pm

Normally the time inbetween murders is used to find evidence and talk to the characters. If you play the original through with a walkthrough, write down the times the murders happen. You still have to wait around it seems. I think it's mainly triggered by time (and when your upstairs or downstairs), like I have done in the remake. Perhaps it's not so much time but based what you have collected or something? Please correct me if I'm wrong though I can change it around. It's not much of a game though if you can complete it in 20 minutes. I don't think I should design the game so it can be completed quickly using a walkthrough. But I'm happy to hear thoughts, but the idea is to remake the original not make it easier or quicker to complete. I've spent alot of time playing the original, but in most cases I save state in various parts of the game. It's just too much work going from the start each time to examine characters and events. But if I've missed anything I'm all ears and there is still plenty of time to modify things.

Damn I wish I could contact the original author and "pick his brain".

Lobo · **Reply #277 on:** November 22, 2009, 07:34:00 pm

True, you don't want to end the game quickly. What might be a good idea is to start off with the first murder pretty soon (no longer than 10 minutes say) and then trigger the other murders based on these conditions met~

A) Not on the same floor
B) Not in the same room (obv)

C) Not with the character to be done for (very obv)

PLUS - if you found a piece of evidence or two in 15 minutes in between each murder? The game can still trigger the next murder in case you didn't found any evidence in the first 15 minutes and ABC conditions are met?
This means that all the people who get any piece of evidence in say, 8 minutes cause they're fast/smart/cheating (

), can trigger the next murder earlier without waiting for say another 7 minutes (as long as the ABC is cleared)?

flash · **Reply #278 on:** November 22, 2009, 08:34:40 pm

Lobo has a brilliant idea....

My life is over!!

headkaze · **Reply #279 on:** November 22, 2009, 08:45:54 pm

Quote from: Flash on November 22, 2009, 08:34:40 pm

Lobo has a brilliant idea....

My life is over!!

Have you even played the game yet?

Lobo · **Reply #280 on:** November 22, 2009, 08:47:57 pm

Quote from: Flash on November 22, 2009, 08:34:40 pm

Lobo has a brilliant idea....

My life is over!!

I'm still playing though, need to report back after I've finished it. Just one thing for the action cursor, as you can see on the images, is not to go too low (picture1) perhaps? Rather to stay along the Y like in 'picture2'? That way you can still see the actual icon without the arrow going too low.

Lobo · **Reply #281 on:** November 22, 2009, 09:39:08 pm

Ugh, a little problem. Briefcase in Dingle's room, it's locked but the key (got it) to open it..I've managed to put it IN the briefcase so now I cannot get it out cause the thing is locked. YAY!

So..yeah, you might wanna make it impossible to put anything in locked stuff until they're unlocked.
Now I gotta go play again.

Lobo · **Reply #282 on:** November 22, 2009, 10:00:03 pm

Just to mention the timing thing. I think it works quite well at least until the first murder happens. As soon as Bentley left the room, I went to the library to..er..look for something and drawing room. Picked up both things and Doc came to tell me that Dingle has been murdered. I reckon that no more than 10 minutes passed all together? Or requirements were met before time? Whichever way, it worked quite well and fast so there was no 'let's walk around forever until something happens'.

headkaze · **Reply #283 on:** November 22, 2009, 10:48:53 pm

Quote from: Lobo on November 22, 2009, 09:39:08 pm

Ugh, a little problem. Briefcase in Dingle's room, it's locked but the key (got it) to open it..I've managed to put it IN the briefcase so now I cannot get it out cause the thing is locked. YAY!
So..yeah, you might wanna make it impossible to put anything in locked stuff until they're unlocked.
Now I gotta go play again.

Funny thing is I just tried doing this in the original and it does the same thing lol I changed it so you can't do that and also made the menu system have an 8 pixel inner boundary so you can't move the pointer right to the edge anymore.

I can either make the murders happen very early in the game or just have an extra trigger based on what you're carrying. The reason Dingle's murder happens so quickly is because it's triggered only after 2 minutes from starting the game and you're not in Dingles room. So it's pretty much immediate, then Doctor goes and checks out the scene, then finds you. The rest of murders are set 15 minutes apart which is boring to wait for, but I'm pretty sure it's how the original works. The thing is we are following walkthrough's and not playing the game how it's meant to be played. I guess it's worth changing so there is less waiting around, but what should the early triggers be based on. What you're carrying? If so should the items need to be in the padded envelopes?

Lobo · **Reply #284 on:** November 23, 2009, 02:14:56 am

Yeah, I think I remember reading about the briefcase problem before somewhere.

As for the triggers, to make the murder happen earlier I guess adding one or two important clues(per murder) in your inventory would be fine (without putting them in envelope)?
If you don't have them then murders should occur as in the original game. Maybe this way, we make it faster for people who might get the items (clues) faster so they don't need to wait for whatever is default time between the murders. It still shouldn't happen instantly but instead, say waiting 15 min between murders is the case, player finds two things in 3 min, so instead of another 12 min of waiting it can be only 2 or something?

Granted, this means nothing when you play the game for the first time but the benefit is for the later, once you know the important items at the beginning, you pick them up and don't have to wait too long for the next murder.

Lobo · **Reply #285 on:** November 23, 2009, 02:20:49 am

Forgot one thing, I've asked HK about it and seems there is some 'metallic' kinda feeling to the music. Once you start it can be heard quite well, especially with higher tone?

spacefractal · **Reply #286 on:** November 23, 2009, 06:06:08 am

That is someting Im testing this week when I got the game install is how it works with the speacker. I think song compression is not needed, if you seperate it to a filesystem. There is 2 xm files.

It also take some time to find the itmes first if you dosent use a FAQ, and of course you should do close to the original, so practical would that been issue if you DONT known where the items is?

EDIT:
There is no sound at all on AceCard II, cant hear anything?

sverx · **Reply #287 on:** November 23, 2009, 07:52:04 am

Starting to test this release from this eve, I'll tell you my first impressions tomorrow

Bye!

(what happened to the icons ?? gosh! )

headkaze · **Reply #288 on:** November 23, 2009, 03:25:24 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on November 23, 2009, 06:06:08 am

There is no sound at all on AceCard II, cant hear anything?

Are you using the unofficial AKAIO firmware? If so MaxMod does not seem to work correctly with this card. Yo may need the Official Version 4.18 Firmware. I posted a message about this on the MaxMod forums but there has been no helpful reply.

spacefractal · **Reply #289 on:** November 23, 2009, 08:18:08 pm

that works with full sound and music. Now I can enjoy the game and test it correctly.

flash · **Reply #290 on:** November 23, 2009, 08:34:10 pm

Using unofficial firmware...

BAD SF!! Bad boy!!

spacefractal · **Reply #291 on:** November 23, 2009, 09:51:47 pm

I downloaded from the AceCard OFFICEL site, so it might have been bad designed

or have downloaded a wrong one, or used a older one (but still works nicely).

I only have problems whith THIS game only with no sound at all and there is still stutter with music (which I now guess it caused by some samples), but look on the other thread, so never noticed it.

headkaze · **Reply #292 on:** November 23, 2009, 10:10:47 pm

It's a MaxMod issue not a TDG issue. I actually stripped down a project to only play a song using MaxMod and it didn't work with the AKAIO firmware. You can view my post about this problem here. I personally think it's a bug in MaxMod.

spacefractal · **Reply #293 on:** November 23, 2009, 10:18:17 pm

please note, it DID work on the file you pointed to. so I confirm it can work on AceCard II, I guess you should point about it on the readme.

So I have to agree with WinterMute as its look more a firmware bug, since it does works with the officiel firmware. The firmware also works somewhere better in warhawk too (stutter less, but when it does, it allways caused by a "start" sample)

flash · **Reply #294 on:** November 23, 2009, 11:35:58 pm

I will just say, the game works perfect on the ak2i on a DSi. Sound and all.

sverx · **Reply #295 on:** November 24, 2009, 06:59:14 am

Here are some bugs/glitches I found yesterday eve, testing the game some 15 minutes.

- If you click on <use object>, then click on an empty space in the list and then the 'drop' icon, you can obtain "You drop (null)" message.
- If you do the same a couple of times more and clicking randomly on screen you can hang the game (I did it twice but I can't describe exactly how to reproduce it)
- In detective's room, if you go close to the bed you can walk 'down' at its side but you can't walk 'up'.
- In suspects list you can't select the last of them tapping on the arrow keys (not a bug, btw)
- The 'steps' sound effect starts always from the same step, I guess it should be better if you make it start from the second step sometimes, to change how it sounds a bit.

About the music and AKAIO firmware... I guess it's simply that speakers aren't enabled and/or output is muted on this firmware and you're not changing this in your code. May I suggest two tests to SF?
- Go back to that firmware again (temporarily

)
- Test TDG using headphones: did you hear the music this time?
- Try launching MMLL and tell us if it sounds correctly.

Sashanan · **Reply #296 on:** November 24, 2009, 09:58:47 am

Quote from: headkaze on November 22, 2009, 10:48:53 pm

Funny thing is I just tried doing this in the original and it does the same thing lol I changed it so you can't do that and also made the menu system have an 8 pixel inner boundary so you can't move the pointer right to the edge anymore.

I can either make the murders happen very early in the game or just have an extra trigger based on what you're carrying. The reason Dingle's murder happens so quickly is because it's triggered only after 2 minutes from starting the game and you're not in Dingles room. So it's pretty much immediate, then Doctor goes and checks out the scene, then finds you. The rest of murders are set 15 minutes apart which is boring to wait for, but I'm pretty sure it's how the original works. The thing is we are following walkthrough's and not playing the game how it's meant to be played. I guess it's worth changing so there is less waiting around, but what should the early triggers be based on. What you're carrying? If so should the items need to be in the padded envelopes?

Delurking...

I'd suggest having them triggered by either time or by the player having collected the right items, whichever comes first. If a player dallies too long finding his evidence, then the game doesn't need to wait for him to figure it out - but if a veteran (or at least someone who knows the first half by now) is at work he shouldn't be made to wait for too long. My suggestion would be to have the second murder triggered by collecting all evidence on the first scene, up to opening the briefcase and retrieving the piece inside as well. Putting them in padded envelopes or not is not something I'd include in the trigger. Locking of the door could happen simultaneously with the second murder, giving the player more leeway for leaving that room too early and making sure he is not locked out (and into an unwinnable situation) unless he really delays.

Second crime scene spawns no evidence so the third could be based on having witnessed it and perhaps having the player do some legwork on the evidence that's not specifically tied to a murder (black bag, bomb, and/or the will). Fourth crime scene's trigger could be finding the murder weapon of the third.

Other things to decide on is what exactly triggers the appearance of the bomb (for the original, I think it's witnessing the second murder scene + a short timer, not sure), and, very significantly, the item in the study. Be cautious about having it disappearing more quickly based on the player's actions, as this is a critical point and another potential scenario for rendering the case unwinnable.

While you're at it and if you haven't done it already, I'd fix some of the oddities from the original - the evidence items not marked as evidence, the freeform entry of values for the safe (which kept ME stuck for over a decade, at least). Are you considering expanding dialogue on characters (especially for item descriptions) too? The original has VERY few characters responding in any way to any item shown, including ones they should reasonably react to.

Tried to keep things mostly spoiler free for this post - I don't know if this is necessary here? If I'm surrounded by people who've completed the game already I may be overly cautious, but I'd rather be sure I don't spoil anybody.

spacefractal · **Reply #297 on:** November 24, 2009, 10:39:50 am

I have not completed the game yet, but hence welcome to the board :-D. Anyway nice post and I guess you have completed the original as well.

There is no reason to fix no sound bug in the unofficiel firmware, since it works completly fine with the officiel firmware (as I wrote)! For the sound its was only happens on this game, and in warhawk stutter to much to been real playable (sorry). It still stutter with the officiel firmware, but I guess the 2 samples I describted in the other thread might cause the music to stutter, and should played delayed or have a option to not play them.

sverx · **Reply #298 on:** November 25, 2009, 07:30:09 am

I've never even played this game before, so I really don't know what's going to happen. Well, yesterday evening after some 20 minutes playing I found a dead body. Then that man was alive again (changed his appearance from a corpse to a living person again) and, even if he isn't walking at all, I could question him. No answers, fortunately

Sashanan · **Reply #299 on:** November 25, 2009, 09:09:48 am

Yeah, that would be either a bug or a very new twist to the storyline :O

Anyway yeah, I've finished the original - wrote a walkthrough on it a few years ago. Of course I myself needed a walkthrough to get through it completely, but I've never been able to refind the document I used. It was somewhere in an obscure corner of the internet.