Starthing the game...

flash · **on:** August 15, 2009, 07:31:39 pm

We have not posted anything yet as there really is not much to show..

The game has had about 5 hours work on it and at the moment all it has is a level, and a 'willy' that can run around and jump on things.

The idea of this game is to speed up Manic Miner and to add a little 'extra' to the game. At the moment the main work is on detection and the gameplay dynamics. We are not trying to reprogramme an exact MM on the DS, but to rather do a little bit of a Warhawk DS on the formula.

We will post here when there is more to show.

flash · **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2009, 08:43:37 pm

OK, early screenshot..

Got a little problem with Vram allocation (sort later), but he runs around and jumps on stuff... Well, As I say, this is around 5 hours work.. LOL

ps. the background is just a placeholder for now...

Who knows if we will ever finish this.. hopefully, but there are other projects that perhaps our time is better invested. who knows?

(and it is still a pure ASM project - another reason for me 'at least' to start something else)

Sokurah · **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2009, 10:36:35 pm

Oh sh!t! - you've actually started that platformer.
I hope it takes a long time to do

- I'd like to have Horace done before this one is done (...and so would you

)

flash · **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2009, 11:36:59 pm

And there was me remembering the time when we compared development times between UXB and Warhawk.. LOL

Don't worry mate, this is a low priority remake... So it may not be finished till way after UXB (or Horace)... don't panic

god - I love this homebrew stuff and now we have a true leader on the forum......

(And I actually mean that nicelly... honest)

Did you mention the beloved Horace? Hmmmmmmmmmm

Sokurah · **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2009, 01:14:56 am

Quote from: Flash on August 15, 2009, 11:36:59 pm

And there was me remembering the time when we compared development times between UXB and Warhawk.. LOL

Don't worry mate, this is a low priority remake... So it may not be finished till way after UXB (or Horace)... don't panic
god - I love this homebrew stuff and now we have a true leader on the forum......

(And I actually mean that nicelly... honest)

Did you mention the beloved Horace? Hmmmmmmmmmm

Of course you mean that nicely - it's yourself. You're coding in assembler...I'm only coding in Basic. You're the true leader here.

But if this platformer is a low priority remake, what are you working on that is high priority?

Btw. Thanks for the scan. I just updated my site and used a bit of it. Saved me from having to scan it myself.

headkaze · **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2009, 01:50:40 am

Another quick screenshot. Just cleaned up a few of graphic glitches and made way for the bottom screen.

headkaze · **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2009, 01:38:35 pm

Added music today (Mod Player) and sfx system

I'm probably gonna end up writing a collision map editor soon and start The Detective Game project. It looks like we will end up having two games on the go

flash · **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2009, 01:48:22 pm

I'm sorry honey... LOL

headkaze · **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2009, 02:24:12 pm

I was actually thinking we should do the two projects side by side anyway. I just think we will get more done that way.

Were still not taking on as many projects as Sokurah though (yet)

spacefractal · **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2009, 03:25:05 pm

Which type of music should I made? I gonna to starte somewhere original music for it. For tests versions I might use mp3 before creating mod/xm version of it.

flash · **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:06:30 pm

The music will be mod format,

I was thinking of a sped up/drummy version of the original 'hall of the mountain king'. This is available in lots of different mods, so there is a good starting point. Thanks so much for the offer SF!

This time we want to keep the file size as small as we can and avoid using efs, etc.

But.. we have quite a way to go before this is at all playable (though it is sorta fun at the moment). Who knows how long it will take to get things right.

One thing we want to make clear to all now, we are not remaking Manic Miner for the DS, we do not want everything to be exact and the same plodding speed. If you want a 100% copy of Manic Miner it is best to use an emulator. What we are after is a slightly jazzed-up version of the original with levels that were in the other releases (Oric, bbc, Archie, Dragon, etc). Hopefully this will also be a re-imagining in the same way as Warhawk DS was?
Who knows!

Hopefully we will be able to post a little single screen demo in a few days? It is all down to time and other commitments.

spacefractal · **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:08:17 pm

then the music I create would been lossy based on it :-D as well, something like the style of High Tolerance found here: http://www.thephorse.net/beatclick/news/?page_id=37, but with a bit less techno as well.

flash · **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:25:32 pm

I have had a little bit of a play with the detection tonight, and it is much tighter, so much so that i added the crumble platforms. There is still work to do though.. but nothing major.
The next step after this is to add animation to the screen other than Willy himself. Make the colectables all flashy etc.

There are a few things in MM that I was never sure of, one is the jump/head detection. I don't want to change the mechanic too much, but... and follow me here...

If you jump right into a block of impassable blocks, the jump mechanic continues. i.e. you hit the wall and the jump continues it's phase and you slide down the wall, but if there is a gap, you can slide into it. but.. If you jump and your head hits an impassable block, the jump motion becomes a fall and you drop vertically. Shouldn't the jump continue on the vertical in the same way as horizontal?
Also, if you are walking through a tunnel of impassable blocks that is the same height as you and you keep jumping, the game will slow your progress as it activates and stops the jump code. Surely it should do nothing as a jump is not possible and you should be able to continue walking through? Well, this is what I have added to the code so far and it seems more natural, what do you think?

Anyway... The game is inching toward a demo version (only 8 hours spent on it from me. and perhaps the same from HK), so even at this early stage it is looking quite fun (and quicker).

We will create a sticky in this board as soon as we have playable code to share.

In the mean time, another bloody screenshot...

ps. a demo version without death or enemies will be made as we really need someone to check all the detection works as it should. Still need work on the jump (how many exact horizontal pixels is it?), I have the height fine though.

pps. We are pretty much using Andy's graphics as a bulding block.. This is hopefully a temporary thing for now... But at least it is a start and enables us to get the project underway - Sorry Andy!!!

flash · **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:38:30 pm

Quote from: spacefractal on August 16, 2009, 07:08:17 pm

then the music I create would been lossy based on it :-D as well, something like the style of High Tolerance found here: http://www.thephorse.net/beatclick/news/?page_id=37, but with a bit less techno as well.

Your music is all good mate

But.. It would be nice to have the 'feel' of the original music (hall of the mountain king) in the same way that you worked such fantastic magic on the Warhawk theme...

This is what we are using at the moment...

ps. Nice tune mate

(High Tolerence)

flash · **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:40:29 pm

Quote from: headkaze on August 16, 2009, 02:24:12 pm

Were still not taking on as many projects as Sokurah though (yet)

Well... we don't want to go silly do we... LOL

Sokurah · **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2009, 11:11:06 pm

Quote from: headkaze on August 16, 2009, 02:24:12 pm

Were still not taking on as many projects as Sokurah though (yet)

Quote from: Flash on August 16, 2009, 10:40:29 pm

Well... we don't want to go silly do we... LOL

Hey...I heard that.

flash · **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2009, 11:21:07 pm

And i whispered...

good grief, coding God, and ears of a God...

spacefractal · **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2009, 05:33:32 am

Quote from: Flash on August 16, 2009, 10:38:30 pm

Your music is all good mate

But.. It would be nice to have the 'feel' of the original music (hall of the mountain king) in the same way that you worked such fantastic magic on the Warhawk theme...

This is what we are using at the moment...

ps. Nice tune mate (High Tolerence)

It more the instrument and style of above tune, because it have somewhere classic style as well, debite the very much techno, some wrote in thier forum. But of course it would been changed to more classic notes using same chords (the above only use one chord, Cm, this one use a least 3). If theme on levels changes as well, the music should change a little bit as well (like the way Giana Sisters DS works).

flash · **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2009, 10:11:51 am

Thought i would see how it worked with the original level

headkaze · **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2009, 01:37:05 pm

Would you consider having Willy be able to change direction while jumping? Or is that too far away from the original? Also do you think it would be better to make Willy's sprite slightly bigger and perhaps scroll the screens horizontally a bit?

Probably bad ideas but thought I would throw them out there while things are still in their early stages.

Started work on The Detective Game today and ended up changing the size of the sprites and maps back to the original C64 size. It's actually a great size for the DS. So I actually use 32x64 sized sprites but only use 2/3's of the whole sprite area (They are visibly 24x41 pixels). That's what got me thinking about maybe going for a slightly bigger size for MMLL sprites and tiles.

flash · **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2009, 01:53:19 pm

Bigger sprites would be nice, but... this is what has put me off some of the other versions. I hate a game of this type scrolling. You really do need to see all to plan your route.
With regards the jump mechanic... I would love to have more control. One thing I think we should look into adding is a second control method (manic manic miner mode) that uses acceleration, bouncing of solid walls, and a parabolic curved jump that changes depending on speed. It could be a fun way to play the game... LOL Perhaps with a tight timer that rewards speed of play with bonus points, lives, etc.

Sokurah · **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2009, 10:43:48 pm

5 hours spent...and playable?
8 hours...and more playable?

What the...have you sold your souls to the devil?...how can you develop that fast?

flash · **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2009, 11:45:21 pm

Ah, but since then I have hit a snag!

Cannot for the life me get the players response to the bloody conveyer belts to be the same as the soddin origina.. god damn it!!!

Ha ha ha ha - if this was not a remake it would be so so easy!!

ps. No conveyors in Horace though LOL

headkaze · **Reply #23 on:** August 19, 2009, 12:39:38 am

We had a bunch of reusable code from Warhawk DS which made it *alot* easier to get straight into coding the game. It looks like I won't be doing much more on this game now that the music and sound fx system is in place. So this will be Flash's remake with some help from me on the side.

I don't actually think there is much more I can do on this since it's all gameplay code now and I think Flash wants to code that (once he gets started it's hard to stop him lol). Even if he doesn't mind me working on gameplay code it's really hard to share large chunks of code in asm since it can be a very stylistic artform. With Warhawk it was easier because we could always work on different parts of the game at the same time and while Flash did the gameplay code I found plenty of work on all the other stuff we needed since there was nothing out there for asm coders it was alot of work just getting the basic graphics, audio and interrupt systems in place.

So some of the code I wrote has been reused in the MM project and much of it is not needed because in many ways it's a technically simpler game than Warhawk. eg. No scrolling, no file system, no subscreens, not much need for visual fx or streaming music etc. But I will be here to help in any way I can Flash, and I'm not abandoning the game, but I really think this is a great project for you to concentrate on and now that all the groundwork has been done you can do what you enjoy the most and that's code a game in pure asm

Anyway personally I will be concentrating on TDG now and hope that Flash can learn some things from it. There is still alot of work to be done with TDG that Flash can help with so I do hope he can get his feet wet. Things may change you never know but right now I think this is were we are headed. Don't get me wrong we are still a team and will be helping out on each other's projects but my main goal is for Flash to learn C++ so that one day we can dev for the iPhone.

flash · **Reply #24 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:42:23 am

So... How does that help my conveyor belt problem LOL

Yeah, HK had already worked hard to establish a great template to enable an ASM project on the DS to be quickly started. So, MM was really easy to get into flow. The level, movement, and simple detection was working within a couple of hours or so.
The MM game is really just a 'fiddle with' game at the moment. What I mean is that it is an easy game to code (apart from the per-pixel sprite detection), so this is just something that I will work on for times when I am lost in TDG (as HK and myself are at different ends of the world, being around at the same time can be tricky).
Saying that, I do not feel the MM is 'my' game, there will still be tons of stuff that HK will help with after the main mechanics are completed, so it is still a joint affair, and hopefully the same will occur with TDG to a degree.

TDG is by far a more important project for me, as i(we) really need this so I can get to grips with C coding and HK's coding methods. MM is already being coded in a more 'C' based structure than Warhawk was initially - see, I am learning HK.

TDG is going to be a longer project as not only is it a much more complicated game, it also (hopefuly) relies on me learning C.. Well, not relies, but will be delayed while I do.. but.. I will!!!!!

The main thing is... 'it will all come out in the wash'

Sokurah · **Reply #25 on:** August 19, 2009, 07:36:07 pm

Quote from: Flash on August 18, 2009, 11:45:21 pm

ps. No conveyors in Horace though LOL

Correct, but the damn dude who made it made sure there was plenty of other platformtypes and levelspecific things to keep a remaker busy.

Quote from: headkaze on August 19, 2009, 12:39:38 am

Anyway personally I will be concentrating on TDG now and hope that Flash can learn some things from it. Don't get me wrong we are still a team and will be helping out on each other's projects but my main goal is for Flash to learn C++ so that one day we can dev for the iPhone.

I don't doubt that I'd like to develop for the iPhone but I'm pretty torn about what language to use. I'd prefer to learn C - seems the purest way of working, but I'm not crazy about C - it seems like a confusing language and I'd prefer to skip the hard part of learning such a different language (compared to what I'm already using) and get to the important part as fast as possible - the gameplay. Wow, long sentence.

Luckily it's also possible to use GLBasic and that's a lot closer to what I'm already using which means a lot less wasted time.

I'm agonizing over this problematic language choice here. My own conclusion is a few posts further down.
I haven't decided completely yet though.

Lobo · **Reply #26 on:** August 19, 2009, 09:42:31 pm

Quote from: Flash on August 17, 2009, 01:53:19 pm

Bigger heads would be nice, but...

Have you received the Willy sprites I've send? Check one of 300 email accounts you have, should be there somewhere. I'm not so sure if they work, they're tiny so let me know.

flash · **Reply #27 on:** August 19, 2009, 11:01:32 pm

Yes, and they are lovely mate.. Not entirely sure that they would not work better with 16 frame though LOL... Sorry I had not replied, the only time I really had today was an hour or so split in 2, and in that time, I was TRYING to get the conveyor problem sorted. I still have not.. It is really driving me nuts.. Such a simple thing and sadly M.Smith did it in a really strange way that really is not intuitive, but.. I also have to get it the same otherwise the current levels will not work.

I got so annoyed with it today that I had willy with the ability to change direction in a jump and move faster l/r... that actually made it a lot more fun to play... Perhaps I should do the game that way and use the original levels as well as the lost levels and make it more impetuous?

Though saying that, whatever i do, I must get the conveyors working as they should.... grrrrrr......

flash · **Reply #28 on:** August 19, 2009, 11:02:45 pm

ps. Lobo, I will send a little demo to you soon mate, once I am happy (though I am married, so happiness is a bit hopefull/hopeless)

flash · **Reply #29 on:** August 19, 2009, 11:11:11 pm

Quote from: Sokurah on August 19, 2009, 07:36:07 pm

I don't doubt that I'd like to develop for the iPhone but I'm pretty torn about what language to use. I'd prefer to learn C - seems the purest way of working, but I'm not crazy about C - it seems like a confusing language and I'd prefer to skip the hard part of learning such a different language (compared to what I'm already using) and get to the important part as fast as possible - the gameplay. Wow, long sentence.
I'm agonizing over this problematic language choice

The simple answer is the same one as I face, learn C++

I hate it for what it is, but... needs must.. and all things considered (except objective C), it is not THAT bad..

Perhaps we can help each other?